So I made a comment on this blog- because it just really yanked my crank-
http://birthmothers4adoption.blogspot.com/
Guess who decided to return the favor? On yeah my last post yesterday garned a lovely comment- and here it is-
Anonymous said...
You are a VERY bitter woman and I feel very VERY sorry for you. I hope one day you will realize how ignorant you are. These "horrible" birthmoms (who apparently, according to you, should be forced to live unstable lives) go on to lead often successful and happy lives while you are still bent on someone "taking away" a child that was never yours to begin with.
You should try a little humility, try to stop being so damned selfish and maybe get some education on adoption and statistics and maybe one day you'll realize how horribly wrong you are. Adoption is not something that you "get over" so I can't tell you to do that, but hopefully one day you can move on and stop taking other people down this miserable road with you.
Isn't it interesting that she say's my child was never mine? And isn't it interesting how she say's I should have a little humility, and to stop being so damn selfish?
I don't have an unstable life, I didn't have an unstable life during my pregnancy either. Interstingly she also uses the word miserable- as if my life is miserable.
Guess what? It isn't! I love my life, I love the fact that I have all my children (two of whom are adults now) in my life. I love each of them equally, although each is unique. There are some things about each of them that I adore, some things I don't like much. But as a mother (and I am a mother) I take the good with the not so good and love my children anyway. Never strings attached, none of that in my house. It's all unconditional, can adopters in some cases say the same? I think not!
I also find it interesting that she say's my daughter was never mine to begin with? WTF? Who got pregnant? Who gestated my daughter? Who gave birth in sweat and blood? Who changed her very first diapers, bathed her, fed her? Oh right, that would be me. Not the woman who's name is on her Amended Birth Certificate. She became her mother 9days later, after I was coerced into signing papers to terminate my rights. Did she have the leaky breasts? Did she have the stitches in her bottom? How about Post Partum Depression and PTSD? Nope she didn't have any of that-
So who the hell are you to say these things to me? Because you are so deleriously happy with the so called choice you made, does not mean we all live in that magic land of Denial. You would deny me the ability to speak my truth if you could. You would write me off as a bitter angry woman, when in fact I am not those things. Not in the way you think.
Angry at a system that allowed my child to be taken from me against my will. Bitter that it happens over and over again still! Angry that so many believe that adoption has changed so much for the better, hell yes!
Am I angry and bitter about my situation anymore? Well no, therapy is a wonderful thing. It helps one see more clearly. You talked about how so many go on to lead wonderful lives. Guess what? I would have been able to do that if I had been allowed to keep my daughter. Still would have gone to school, still would have managed with the help of my family. They would have helped! SO why don't go off into your little dream land full of Rainbows and Butterflies and leave me alone for now? I told you once we the ones who know better will be around when you come out of the fog, and we will be.
I think I may be posting a lot this year- it's one of my resolutions in fact. Two years away has given me the time and space I need to enter the fray again-
All ya'all have a wonderful! I am going to buy my books for next semester. Did I tell you I am working towards a Master's Degree these days? Yes, I am in Social Work, so I can work with kids in disrupted adoptions and with mom's who like me have come out the other side, battered and bruised, but still standing-
62 comments:
Are you freaking kidding me? Our kids were never ours? Ok I give who then? From their site we know they don't believe father's have any rights. Soooooooo maybe it is the milkman's baby. Nope sorry, all my kids are MY kids. They were from the moment sperm hit egg. That is why they have my pesky DNA. My blood flows through their viens. Everything about them is a combination of their father and me. Sorry if it pisses certain people off but its fact. Get over it
Ok on a serious note. They hit my blog too but were way nicer. I felt bad for them at first because they are so new and in the fog. I am quickly losing my pity for them. They are vipers so beant on making what they did ok that they will put as many other women through this hell as they can.
Aislin(who is lazy again)
I read this blog and was nauseated beyond belief. I am sorry they are attacking you now...hmmm shows just how "happy" they really are, huh?
I don't know, as an adoptee, seeing a website full of women who are praising the abandonment of their children is heartbreaking. Sad thing is, they'll never listen to adoptees, we should just be grateful for the wonderful lives we were given through adoption I'm sure. Whatever. Not that that site even gives a mere mention of adoptees, it's all about the purchaser getting the desired goods.
I don't think these people are really even who they claim to be. It looks to me like a cleverly disguised adoption agency site trying to lure more pregnant women in to abandon their babies. It wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Oh and btw, congratulations on your reunion, glad it is going good for you!
Mary, thank you for email. Unfortunately I never left such a comment on your blogsite. I am sorry for the miscommunication. Best of luck to you.
You think you deserve email? Sad sad sad- but at least you know what I think-
you might try reading other mom's blogs- it could very well open your eyes.
Best of luck to you as well!
as neither of the blog administrators of http://birthmothers4adoption.blogspot.com
left the anon comment you accused us of leaving, i think its only fair that you alter your post to no longer accuse us of such.
if one of our READERS left an anon comment on your blog then that is clearly their opinion and only theirs and shouldnt be construed as 'ours'. thank you.
The same way you will be deleting th comment you posted on your blog accusing both Mary and myself of being untruthful? I have no clue if you made this comment on her blog or not. I do know you deleted the comments we made on your blog and stated that we had been insulting, deragatory, and untruthful. I still have not gotten the email explaining what what said that fit that description but that hardly matters. I am curious why you think Mary should cater to your wants when you ignore ours. You can't have it one way for yourself and another for everyone else
Aislin and Lillie- thank you both!
As for you poster from the bword blog- I am not going to remove a thing from my blog. Why should I?
You speak your truth as you see it, and I speak mine.
I don't alter my blog for anyone, most especially not when it is clear that the comment came from someone on your blog. I fully expected my comments to get deleted. I understand completely why you did so as well. I wasn't very nice. But then I have little patience for those who write nonsense. I apologize if you didn't like what I had to say. Might I suggest you enable comment moderation? That way no one will get their feelings hurt except those of you who moderate. Aislin on the other hand said nothing awful, I read her comment and it was not insulting or derogatory. It was actually quite reasonable.
But, and it's a big but, your blog is insulting to a lot of us who don't live in La-la Butterfly, Unicorn and Rainbow land. Those of us who have suffered so much at the hands of the industry, those of us with the courage to speak out are looked down upon, for speaking our truth!
I was told to look into statistics etc. DO you all think I haven't? Believe me there are things I have learned I wish I could un-learn.
How about this little factoid 1-2% of the population is adopted. Of that 1-2% - 84% are abused in some way. That is not made up, but a cold hard fact.
What about the fact that open adoption is just another lure used on innnocent women to induce them into surrender?
I suggest that the anon person has a lot to learn as do you the moderators.
I will not alter my posts- I might acknowledge I was mistaken- but only once I have proof- Aside from the fact that I know the ip and it came to me from your blog-
So anon it's in your hands fess up, who exactly are you?
REALLY? This is the level we have to sink to? REALLY????????? Reminds me of High school all over again.. This one hurt this ones feelings & that one hurt that ones feelings. GAG ME!
EVERYONE (IMO of course) need to take a deep breathe step back & be rational about all of this.
Adoption is & always will be a PERSONAL issue & we all have our version of what adoption means to us. NO 2 one versions are going to be the same. NO on has any right to personally attack some one for their beliefs!(Yet it seems to be happening right here, right now!)
This whole thing is DISGUSTING to me. Us women should be bonding together instead of tearing each other down. Agree to disagree & engaging each other in this manner is so counter productive that it ULTIMATELY give that much more power to the "adopters" (Adoptive families) This divisiveness just makes their case that we birthmothers/first mothers etc(insert what ever the hell you wanted to be referred to as here)are angry, bitter, mentally unhealthy, low class, subservient(any anything else you have heard spewed by them)
Is adoption wrong? Depends on who you ask...
Is adoption right? Again, it depends on who you ask. Remember when asking, you are only getting someone's PERSONALLY experience. NOT cold hard facts. Adoption is & never will be a black & white issue for EVERYONE. To each their own. Those on opposite ends of this debate WILL NEVER AGREE to the other person's stance 100%. Give it up! You are beating your head against a brick wall. I believe the BEST we can hope for is SOME understanding of the other person's stance without having to "give in" completely: to try to at least find some value in what the other person is saying without having to completely abandon one's own personal stance. Tolerance, people, tolerance. This world definitely needs more of it...
In case you are wondering what my "stance" is, I do not believe adoption should be practiced in the manner that it is being done today. I honestly believe that adoption should be a "last resort" option. I do not hate adoption nor do I endorse it. It is a personally decision that needs to be thoroughly researched before deciding to chose it as an option.
As A Birthmother who choose to place her child for adoption 18 years ago, yes you read that right I CHOOSE TO PLACE MY CHILD I was not made to place by my parents or the agency I was never told that I could not parent this child if I kept them and that it would be better for me or the child to place them with new parents.
I did my research independently and I choose a semi open adoption which as not only allowed me to still see my child and create a relationship with them and their parents. but to help me with my choice.
I can whole heartily say that I am HAPPY with the Choice that I made and that if placed in the same position I would do it again.
I wont say that the past 18 years have been easy because they have not been but I wont say that adoption is WRONG because it is not.
I dont believe that AParents should go around saying that the child/ren is a gift from GOD as it is not a gift from GOD it is not a gift at all. It was someone knowing that they were not able to raise a child and they did the next best thing for them and choose this for them.
I am not blind that not all adoptees have a great life but never to all children who stay with their families or single parents. Unfortunately it is not always a bed of roses.
As for Birthfathers I dont hate them but seeing that most of them run away as soon as you tell them that you are pregnant and question you about is it theirs then I have no heart for them. My child’s birthfather is a dickhead who has made my life and our childs life hell all because he has the right too. Well hell no I will not stand by and watch this happen.
People need to realise that every story is different and that not all stories are happy and that there are 3 sides to every story hence why it is referred to as the adoption triangle.
People it does not help anyone by saying that those mothers who choose to do this and are happy with this (which I can say is not 100% because we all have bad days) are wrong and as does it by the woman who were made to place their children and had a bad time with it are wrong either.
I suggest that we stay on our own sides and if we meet we are nice to each other and understand that life is made up of different people and different situations and that we dont always get along.
I have talked to may women over the years who have attacked me over my choice but who I have felt for because they did not have a choice but they can never understand that because of the bad things that happened to them things have change (not all but sometimes) and the system is different these days and the bad agencies are being weeded out.
I ask you all from the bottom of my heart to stay on your sides and learn some empathy and respect for others.
It will not help anyone by leaving nasty comments on blog after blog.
Move on people and now that were are all birthmother and we all have DIFFERENT stories which are good, bad and indifferent.
I post this anonymously as I choose to do that as I don’t openly blog about my adoption as again this is my CHOICE.
I have read the other blog you are referring to and I don't think they live in a la la land of butterflies and rainbows. I think they are choosing to make the best out of a situation that was hard, there is a difference. You state that they are in a fog because they are "new". Well, I placed a child for adoption almost 18 years ago, his 18th birthday is in April and that adoption was closed. I am in no way new to this situation. I think adoption has evolved for the better, I think open adoption is better for all involved if that is what they wish. I think it can aid the birth mother in healing over the loss of her child.
The first point I wanted to make was that I think you and the other blog are coming from very different perspectives neither of which is right or wrong. They feel they made the best choice for their baby and you feel you were FORCED to place your baby. Those situations are very different and shouldn't be compared.
The second point was about one of the comments from Lillie. She calls us birth mothers abandoners who are praising such action. I am sorry but I do not look at myself as an abandoner. I was 16 years old when I was pregnant with my son and knew I would not be able to give him the life two parents could. I felt I made an educated decision to give him a better life. I am so saddened to hear of the statistic relating to adoptees being abused. I think that is just wrong, but I think it is wrong for any child to be abused. I personally know that my child has not been abused and is grateful for the decision I made for him. I have not yet reunited with him, but keep my fingers crossed that I will someday have that opportunity.
With that said I am satisfied with the decision I made. Was it heart wrenching and hard and sad for me to deal with that loss? Absolutely. Would I choose that for him again? Absolutely. The point is I don't think anyone should be forced to place a child for adoption, but if it is the birth mothers choice then I think it should be respected and supported.
ok - here goes - first - Aislin - correct - they are our children - any of the rainbow crowd that do not believe me - go look at my posting regarding "Factions and Foolishness" - and look under comments. My daughter is quite well spoken about her feelings and believe me when I say she was very cruel and mean, but out of ignorance and fear, not hate.
Second, if you want people to respect you, respect them. No one says that you rainbow butterflie ladies do not have the right to your own beliefs and feelings, but when you put them out there - expect some opposition.
Third - the day someone can honestly, and trust me, I am working on my masters in psychology, tell me, using language that does not give away the hidden lies, that they think it was all beautiful - I might believe it. Until then, good luck. I know for sure that no woman gets pregnant, no matter what circumstances and plans to give away their child.
Oh - Birth fathers - bite me whoever it was that said they were all jerks - my daughter's father was and will always be my first love. My husband is my heart, but he is not my daughter's father.
Mary - you go girl. You and are from places not too far apart actually - physically and emotionally.
For that post, I got a few of those and so has FirstMothersBirthmothers and the best we can tell, it is either an adopter (adoptive parents are a different breed of person - not theives and abusers and they do exist) or a mother in denial.
The thing is - Etropic stated it well - there are so many shades of gray, however, the fact, my friend E, were cited correctly!
We, mothers - not birth, not first, not natural - JUST mothers need to grow some nads, and know that until we stand together - we are all screwed.
I love your blog, hope I did not piss of too many folks and wish you awesome well with school. I think I will follow this blog...it interests me in thoughts and ideas.
Each person is entitled to their own opinion, but what point does it prove to send people to attack a blog. http://birthmothers4adoption.blogspot.com is to help girls see that it is possible to survive after they place a child for adoption, but in the end it everyone's own choice on how they choose to feel after the situation. We all control our own attitude and behavior towards something, and shouldn't try to push a bad attitude on someone that is trying to have a good attitude about a hard decision. The administrators of the blog have a right to delete whatever comments they choose to. They set up the blog for their own reason, and do not deserve to be attacked over one person having a bad opinion towards them or a decision. If you don't want to read what they have to say, don't read it but don't force your opinion on someone just because they're happy and content with a choice they made. Every situation is different, and if people want to be happy about their decision let them. Age and how long ago they placed makes no difference at all. You couldn't have placed 30 years ago or 2 months ago, the feelings are still there.
I placed a baby a while back and am now married, raising my own family, and still happy and know that I made the right decision for my child.
First I am sorry your child was taken from you
However this is not the situation for the birth mothers that I read about from that other blog you suggested.
I happen to know for a fact that the blogsite you referred to is made from birth mothers who chose to place their child for adoption. It's not an agency! That is funny...
The stories you read are real and from real women who are selfless and have chosen to do what is the best for their child. Who have put their child first. Wanting the child to have a mother and a fatherm sometimes even siblings. There are many reasons for placing and you can bet that these women choose this for their child out of love for that child.
I am sorry you disagree with what these birth mothers and what they are trying to do. However, I stand behind birth mothers and their choices to place a child in a loving home. These are not decisions made lightly or without much thought and heart put into it.
I agree with Etropic. Very wisely put, it is all a very personal issue and each situation is different, for everyone involved will feel differently and experience adoption differently in their life. We should try to respect each others out look, input and experience for what it is to them. To degrade or dismiss someone else's personal experience is ignorance and shows only insecurities. It is a reflection of the person posting and in the end will really not change anything.
A person who has convictions whether good or bad, and is secure in those convictions will respect that others won't have the same feelings and will be able to acknowledge the others input but still stand respectively on their point of view.
Good luck to you all...Remember, we are all God's Children. Each with something GOOD to contribute in this life. I think the birth mothers blog is doing just that ... contributing and supporting good things for birth mothers. None of what is said is made to upset anyone and I am sorry you could not feel what others have from that blog. For it is an amazing blog, filled with many different experiences-- all that need to be shared and heard.
Okay, I'm going to try to come at this in the spirit of Etropics comment, that bickering isn't our answer. But, I also don't see sending out a war cry through personal messages and emails to be much better either.
Our experiences and situations are different, I will agree with that, but I would also agree that we all, whether we believe it was by choice or not, share one thing in common - the loss of our children through adoption.
I was a "happy" beemommie for many, many years of my life. I lived in denial, unable and unwilling to face the true grief it caused when I gave up my oldest son.
During that time I would have fought tooth and nail as well against those who dared to challenge my feelings, who took a poke at anything that did not continue to make me "feel good" about adoption. For me, I HAD to have that. I had to not only believe adoption was good, I had to have others praise me for believing that.
Do I believe some of the First Moms (refuse to use the other term)face the same denial, the same need to "feel good" about what happened - yes, very much so. Do I believe ALL will feel that way - No! Nor will I challenge them in their feelings because, like I said, I was one who would have fought like crazy against anyone who challenged me back in my days of denying just how deeply losing my son affected me.
But, with all that said, I do have concerns though with some of the things I do read on certain websites.
One is the heavy influence that LDS has had on many of the First Moms who gave up their children. It only takes a bit of searching to learn exactly what LDS believes - When the unwed parents are unable or unwilling to marry, they should be encouraged to place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Social Services.
My other concern is sites that have such an influence over other pregnant women that do not give challenging sides from First Moms who are not in a "happy" state or from adoptees and what so many of them have gone through because of adoption.
To me, when I see sites that hail First Moms as heroes that state over and over again that adoption is the "loving" option and use the very well researched manipulative language and tactics that the NCFA has well documented in their book Birth Mother, Good Mother . . .
http://adoptiontruth-casjoh.blogspot.com/2009/05/birthmother-good-mother.html
I cringe because I fear for another pregnant mother to join the ranks of moms who have lost their children and I hurt for the FIrst Moms who have lost their children under these kind of coercive tactics.
Just my opinion, from my side and all I have learned from my experience, my research and my study into the world of adoption.
To the rah-rah-adoption crowd, you can have your own opinions. That's fine. It's the disinformation and the recruitment that is something I cannot stand by and watch happen. You can't talk about birthfathers.. fathers.. the way that you do. They have rights to their children. If you don't want your child/can't take care of your child, they should have an opportunity to parent before complete biological strangers.
And, the name calling, you stay classy, Jamie.
Oh Jaime, you are letting your "selfless" side show. I will not respond in the way I truly wish to because I have more important things to say and you are so far beneath this conversation it is pathetic.
Yes the site owners over there have every right to delete any comment they want. I (and Mary if she so chooses) also have every right to defend ourselves when we have been accused of the things we were. It is also very easy for Mary to know where her comment was coming from and she has every right to post about it if she wants. Just like Jessa (sorry if I have the name wrong) can post whatever she wants.
Now on to the thing I actually care about. I agree 100% with Cassie. It is one thing to be happy and feel pride in your decisions if they were in fact your decisions. It is totally different to tell vunerable pregnant women that adoption is all happy dappy sunshine and flowers. There is one post on that blog about how proud one of the writers is for telling a scared visibly upset pregnant woman to consider adoption. That sickens me.It crosses a very important line. Pregnant women and young mothers should NEVER be approached about adoption. If that is an option they want to learn about there are millions of phone numbers and websites for them. Telling them how wonderful it is without letting them see the dark side of adoption sets them up for life changing trauma. Talking about how you need to have your open adoption agreement written down without telling them it isn't worth the paper it is written on is irresponsible. I think that is the thing that bothers me the most about this site. It is being help up as the norm for natural mothers when in fact it is not
If you had a good ecperience and are happy with the way it turned out then god bless you. I just hope and pray it stays that way for you and your children are just as happy with it. However, there are a great many women and children in vast amounts of pain from adoption. We are no less important than you. We have a voice that need to be heard just as much as yours if not more so. Women considering adoption need to hear the bad outcomes. They need to know about the adopters that lie and move away forever. They need to know about all the things that can and do go wrong. They need to hear about the women whose children were taken through lies and manipulation. How can they ever hope to protect themselves and their babies if they only hear the happy stuff?
As an adoptive mother of four I am am so sad to hear that you are anti-adoption. You may not believe this, but I know exactly how you feel about your daughter. It's the same empty hole I had in my soul not being able to be a mom. You see all those other "normal" families out there raising kids and want to crawl in a cave and cry because somehow your body has betrayed you and you can't carry, hold, love, or raise your baby. Adoption is not just about putting kids in what the state thinks is a "better" home...it's abouut making mothers.
FACT: our boys would be in foster care if we hadn't adopted them.
FACT: our daughter would still be labeled "handicapped" and would be living in dirt in Africa if we hadn't adopted her.
We have given our kids a better home but you know what....I DON'T know if I am a better mom than their births moms would be. I am just doing my best. And underneath is always the fear that despite all my efforts, all the love, and all the time I devote to these awesome kids...I fear they will grow up wishing they had a different mom! Wishing and longing to be with their birth moms! You can't know how devasting that fear is. Can't you have compassion?
I also worry constantly about our kids' birthmoms and feel that they are really an extended part of our family. I feel like it's important to keep everyone "in the know" and hope that my children will love us all as they grow up.
Above all...I pray that my kids will somehow forgive us for the mistakes we all have made that may or may not screw them up.
Whether you were tricked into giving your child to adoption or not, you made the choice to get pregnant and put yourself in a place where others thought you shouldn't care for your own child. No matter what happened ultimately you signed the papers. You can be mad all you want, but at the end of the day you know that it was your own choices that got you here. And I am sure your daughter's mom is grateful that you made the choice to make her a mother! Have some compassion on the adoptive mothers. It's hard for us too.
How amazing this has all turned out to be-
Name calling
So either I am a heroine, or a whore? Either selfish or unselfish? I have no humility, and I suppose I should be grateful as well.
Ultimately my words are just that, my words. My truth, my life-
Jamie to you in particular I say this, class will take you much farther than cursing. I don't recall saying anything nasty like you did. I spoke my mind and again I am hushed and told to go back into a closet I came out of years ago.
I will be making another post shortly, I hope all of you read it and pay very careful attention to it. I have to much to say to write it in a comment~
Peace
Shannan you start out seemingly compassionate then you lay out the "you got pregnant" spiel. It's a tired one. She put herself in a position to make people think her baby should be taken away? It makes me very sad to see you lack compassion for the plights of others. Getting pregnant should not need to set you up for harassment and victimization. I hope that your children never do anything to disappoint you.
To be clear, yes, I just questioned your parenting.
Shannan - I do believe yours was one of the least-compassionate requests for compassion I have ever seen.
By your mention of choices, I am going to assume that you must have waited until you were married, financially secure and in a "good" place before you ever had sex. If not, since there is absolutely no form of birth control that is 100% effective other than abstinence itself, you made the same choices as the rest of us. You just didn't get pregnant.
And in your reflection of choices, if you fall into the majority of women who struggle with infertility because of sexually transmitted diseases or waiting to long and passing up your most fertile years before trying to have a baby, then you too made your own choices as well in the fact you were unable to have a child of your own.
Be very careful before you throw that first stone, Shannan because NOBODY can sit in judgement over others without expecting to be judged themselves.
-Sarah-
Oh Jesus fricking Christ! Infertility is not the same pain as having your child stolen. I admit it is pain and I am very sorry you feel it but its not even close to the same. I swear if I hear the you chose to get pregnant crap one more time my brain will explode. Not all women choose to get pregnant. Heard of rape? Not to mention getting pregnant is not a crime. It happens unplanned for many reasons some preventable some not. No one has the right to take away any woman's child unless there is abuse. Being young, poor or single is not a crime punished by losing your baby. It is not the job f the fertile to supply babies for the infertile. This is not the handmaiden's tale last I checked.
Unless you were in the oom you have no cue if she signed papers or not. Some women sign even when thy don't want o. Some do't sign and have it forged anyway. Some women sig while heavily medicated. I am so damn confused by how it seems to be ok to lie, trick, manipulate, threaten and drug women into signing as long as adopters are happy. How does that make it ok? It doesn't!!! It is never ok to do this to anyone. It is evil and cruel. Blaming the victim is less than compassionate and does not inspire anyone to show you anything but scorn.
You should really be ashamed to have written that
oh I missed this little gem
Adoption is not just about putting kids in what the state thinks is a "better" home...it's abouut making mothers.
there we have it. Its not about the kids after all
I would like to state a fact... the LDS FAMILY SERVICES actually tell the young ladies it will be the hardest thing they ever do in their life. They teach them they will mourn and feel remorse for a long time. It is just the opposite from what you just said about them Cassi. They also teach the girls that to place a child they must pray about it and know for themselves that -placing is what they should do. There is no one there to make anyone sign anything.
As for Birth Fathers... First Fathers, what ever you want to call them. (by the way some people ARE TRYING to use the correct lingo you all seem to have, so please give credit where it is due)
Birth Fathers have to sign the papers in order for an adoption to proceed... therefore... they give up their rights to raise the child of their own free will. NOT ALL BF's are bad... there are some really terrific ones out there, but the majority of the time, the guy is backing out and running as fast as he can in the other direction... there fore leaving many young ladies alone in this whole process.
So for those of you with great Birth Fathers, your lucky... to those of you with SUCKY ONES... so sorry.
I would like to just add... that life is PAIN! We learn to move forward. To move forward is also letting go. IT IS WHAT IT IS! WHATEVER YOUR OUT COME ... unless you can change it, move forward. That is the best thing to do for yourself.
It is my prayer that those who have suffered deep pain from anything, that they can find peace and comfort and move forward.
Actually, what I said about LDS came from a direct quote from their own monthly publication the Ensign. You can find many of their adoption related articles here . . .
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=6f5378159909b010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&hideNav=1&pageNumber=1&maxResults=20&NARROW_BY=&query=adoption&bucket=Ensign&dateFrom=&dateTo=&AUTHOR_CATEGORY=&AUTHOR_NAME=&FORMAT=&submitSearch=Search&dateFromDisplay=&dateToDisplay=&findByAuthor=
And in my opinion, LDS Family Services is one of the most manipulative and coercive adoption organizations in existence.
That is my belief from what I know of them and researched about them and the tactics they use on pregnant women.
Sorry, I should have mentioned that link will take you to their search page for Ensign where you can search for adoption and get all their related articles.
We aren't just talking about one agency. If your agency did that then good. You are lucky. Many many don't. I am not getting into the LDS debate. I'm sure someone will but I'm tired of that one.
I do think you need a bit more education in father's rights. If the mother and father are not married it is not nearly as cut and dry. I don't deny that there are crappy fathers that turn tale and run from a pregnancy. There are also fathers that do everything right and still are unable to stop the adoption of a child they dearly love and want. That is not right. No parent should be deprived of their right to parent their own child without abuse present. Fathers should have the very same rights as mothers. The child is as much the fathers as it is hers. Children also have the right to be raised in their natural families. Denying them that hurts the very children you claim to be protecting.
Having a child taken from you in this way goes beyond pain. It is a violation on a very deep level. Often natural mothers in these cases end up with PTSD and life long trauma induced issues. Its not as simple as "letting go". That might be possible for the mothers that really made a free choice. For those of us that did not it just isn't that simple. I will never just let go of my child. It won't happen. I didn't freely give her up so why would I let her go? With all due respect if you did make your own decision then you have no clue what it is like for those of us that were forced. And unless you are a therapist your advice of "letting it go" is dangerous. You really have no clue what you are saying.
I know you mean well by it but I really hate it when people say they will pray for me. I am quite capable of asking for praye if I feel ike I need it. Please save your prayers for someone that wants them.
One last thing. What is with all the anons. Could we please put some names on our comments? Pretty please. Its not like we are going to everyne's blogs calling them nasty names. When there are this many anons it gets very confusing
I admit I find amazing the number of mothers who claim they had a choice when in fact, if you look at the circumstances of the surrender of their babies, there WAS no choice.
"I could not raise this baby"
"The adoptive parents were with me during my pregnancy"
How did these young woman figure out that they wanted to surrender their babies? Did they actually get a chance to recover from birth WITH their babies and with access to all the resources and support that a much older, married mother would take for granted? Compare yourselves, folks, to the people who adopted your child and tell me what it was that prevented you from keeping your child? In most cases I can point out to you a human rights violation or an event of social, psychological, financial, or emotional coercion.
I ask you: Did you love your baby? Did you ever find you wanted to keep your baby? If you answered "yes" to either of these questions, and still surrendered your baby, then you were likely coerced and there WAS no decision. This includes emotional coercion caused by pre-birth or pre-surrender bonding with prospective adoptive parents. All in all, a coerced "decision" is not a decision at all -- it has been influenced and manipulated.
"Is adoption wrong? Depends on who you ask...
Is adoption right? Again, it depends on who you ask. "
Much as one can say the same thing about rape -- depends on who you ask -- the rapist or the victim ... or a "bystander" who believe that the victim "got what she deserved."
Why do I bring up the analogy? Mainly because the psychological trauma of surrender is on par with that of sexual assault. PTSD, unresolved grief and loss, shame and self-blame, severe depression ... all of these are common consequences.
Sexual exploitation and reproductive exploitation are just as bad.
"Adoption is a violent act, a political act of aggression towards a woman who has supposedly offended the sexual mores by committing the unforgivable act of not suppressing her sexuality, and therefore not keeping it for trading purposes through traditional marriage. The crime is a grave one, for she threatens the very fabric of our society. The penalty is severe. She is stripped of her child by a variety of subtle and not so subtle manoeuvres and then brutally abandoned." - Joss Shawyer, Death by Adoption, Cicada Press (1979)
This was stated 30 years ago and nothing has changed: Adoption is still a social means where women are convinced that they do not deserve their babies and that they should be "punished" by the loss. Coercion just occurs via different methods than back then.
Cedar, Aislin, T, and everyone else who have been so positive thank you so much for your support and for caring, I love all of you!
Mary and Aislin, I would like a public apology to go out to both of you and all those that were offended in this little blog war of ours. Truth be told I never wanted any of this to go this far. We are both fighting for what we feel is right. We all have different experiences and feel differently. I am sorry for anything hurtful that was said. I would like to ask that we just let each others blogs be. I respect you for fighting for what you believe in. I need to fight for what I believe in. However, I do feel that bickering back and forth is not the way to do it. I wish you and your friends the best in life. I hope that you get everything you want in life. Please forgive me for offending you in anyway. God bless, Jessa
Mary I just found this and I am so sorry that you have been sworn at and basically attackd because you have a different opinion.
My child was ALWAYS my child and noone had the right, N.O.O.N.E. had the right to come between us. Adoption was supposed to be for orphans, REAL orphans who had no living family, no name and no prospects. You birthmotehrs who go around giving away their babies because you can't see an end to your issues, that is not what adoption was for and so you ARE just abandoning your children. Dismissing what adult adoptees have to say is so unwise, they have more to offer you than anyone else in your cosy little pro adoption world.
Anyway, well put Mary and keep up the great work. Some people just don't want to listen. Their issue, not ours. Let them find out the hard way.
Myst- Darling I read your blog all the time- thank you for commenting and defending me. I love you and I love your blog~
Mary the mother who never stopped loving her child~
Cedar~ WOW Nothing like taking my words out of context to support your own analogy! 2 thumbs up! {sarcastic}I find it morally offensive you compare adoption to rape..good grief..enough of the dramatics. It is obvious you have missed my point..
POINT: there are always going to be differing opinions/experiences when it comes to adoption. Does that mean in order for one to be "right" the other is wrong? That is the tone I am hearing here on this blog form the comments i have read. I hear an attitude of "the majority rules". Screw the rest..they don't matter. Isn't that the same attitude the women who came before me encountered? The women from the baby scoop era? They are/were told to to "Go away " & that they didn't & still don't matter? Adoption supporters are CONSTANTLY trying to dismiss them, their experiences, as well as their voices. You are in essence doing the same thing. People here are dismissing what the women over at the other blog have to say as they are offended by it. I encourage all of us to step outside of yourself for one second & LISTEN with your heart not your head to what they are trying to say.
I personally don't care for all the happy-happy-joy-joy attitude, but it works for them then so be it! Who am I to judge? As long as they are not telling you that you need to be happy like they are,(which I saw nothing of the sort as I just spent the last hour or so reading through every entry. And as a matter of fact one of the posts by Desha talks about that very issue Here's the link:http://birthmothers4adoption.blogspot.com/2009/11/guest-blogger-positive-adoption.html) agree to disagree. Move on. What's the goal here? I'm just not seeing it. All I hear is a bunch of angry hens squawking around trying to see who can squawk the loudest & longest in order to "win".
BTW, Cedar~NEWS FLASH: NOT EVERYONE IS AS EMOTIONALLY HURT BY ADOPTION AS YOU WERE! Not everyone is going to be a "happy little birthmom" either! I absolutely HATE it when people talk in generalizations like that! You can't speak for me & don't speak for me! I speak for myself thank you very much! I don't need someone telling me who I need to be or should be according to "studies & statistics" Usually it's one of the 2: The happy subservient grateful birthmom who was happy to give her child away or I have to be the angst filled,rageaholic, fight-the-adoption mills activist! I fall right smack in between thank you very much. I get so sick & tired of being told I have PTSD (or it being implied some how)as a way to negate MY personal experience & that of others who's adoption experience haven't "followed the beaten path".(ie the "majority")I get tired of hearing about PTSD just about as much as a lot of the women here get tired of the "happy little birthmoms" @ birthmothers4adoption. You can't & WON'T change them & how they view adoption! So why keep beating that dead horse???
I KNOW what I went though, I KNOW the grief, the heartache, the misery, the despair. I know it because I lived it. I made it through because I CHOSE TO MAKE IT THROUGH!! I chose to live & love myself more instead of bemoaning others in their adoptions. Which is exactly what I am hearing here. How is being passive aggressive from behind a computer screen, calling names,& being PURPOSELY confrontational & disrespectful accomplish anything? Does it change each of our individual "truths" in our own adoptions??? NO! So why the confrontation? Just to be confrontational? Seems like a huge waste of time...
In closing, I echo the same thoughts as the anonymous poster who posted after my first post. I encourage you to go back & read it & let is soak in. Our differences make us who we are. How boring life would be if we were a the same...
OMG about some of the things Shannan says!
ha ha ha you have to laugh thought don't you!!
So punitive and patronising and oh my God what can I say. Just picking up my jaw from the ground here.
LADEEEZ please stop fighting!! Learn from my past errors.
Dearest loveliest Mary I hope you are doing great, wanted to drop by and wish you a Happy New Year.
love you!
Kim Kim
JLBills, I don't think anyone meant for things to go this far. I don't need an apology for what you have said on this blog. I, personally, was not offended by things you said on here. I am offended by my ongoing treatment on your blog.Since that is with one of your moderators I have no idea if you are even aware of the situation. I don't get offended when people disagree, just when they insult, do their damnedest to wound, twist words and dismiss others. I will reread but I didn't notice you doing that here.
I believe this whole thing started due to someone misreading the original post. If you go back and read it was aimed at one person that left a nasty hurtful comment. That comment was only written to hurt and wound someone that is already wounded. There is no excuse for that behavior. Your site was only mentioned as a reference point because that is where the commentor came from. She never said it was you or anyone that runs the site. She said they came from there after she left a comment. This is a perfect exmple of how we as humans put our own spin on things as we read. The written word holds no tone so we add our own. In this case it was the wrong tone.
I do want to encourage you to get help for Jamie. She said you are her friend so maybe you can do something for her. That level of anger is not healthy. For all we are called bitter and angry we have discussed wih respect and been very calm. Jamie on the other hand is lashing out. People lash out for a reason even if when they don't know that reason. The intensity of her hatred and anger towards a woman she doesn't know and has never spoken to is scary. Please find her a good therapist that can help her deal with her pain. I would also suggest that if she can not handle the log world you encourage her to stay off it. This is not a rare occurance on blogs. People fight all the time over sillier things. It seems to have really upset her. There is no reason for her to be continually hurt by what other people write. It serves no purpose. From what I read her daughter is quite young so this is very fresh. It might be best if she just concentrates on her own healing right now instead of exposing herself to things that will upset and hurt her. I truly hope she is feeling better and finds her way
Aislin, Much Agreed. We're workin on that with her. That is how she has expressed her passion for a while...
Thank you for not taking offense to such petty things like someone losing their temper.
I think it is very sad that we as birth mothers or first moms are fighting because of differences and name calling. We should be supporting one another and educating each other in our different stories.
I have an understanding of both a forced adoption and a chosen adoption. My mother was 16 and forced to place her daughter her parents sent her out of state. She felt she had no rights and couldn't even hold her baby in the hospital. I think that is so sad. Lucky for her she was able to heal. Years later she stayed with a couple that had adopted and it helped her to see the kind of family these children are placed with. Her hardest time was when she first started raises kids and realized what she lost. My mom was able to heal more through my adoption experience and was a huge help to me as well.
I placed 6 years ago. I was not forced, manipulated or coherced or influinced by pain drugs. I origionally had planned on single parenting but through my own research and therapy I felt it was the best thing for my son to be raised with a Father and Mother. There were other reasons but that was the main one. The birth father left the state when I was only 2 months along. I did not have his support. I know that there are good birth fathers out there who want their child and I agree that they deserve a chance to raise the child if they are stable. I placed in utah and Birth Fathers had to prove their rights. For me it was easier that he didn't have to sign his rights away since I didn't know how to track him down.
I can't remember what person brought up LDS but I placed with them and was not forced in an adoption plan. My case worker helped me to research all my possibilities and mostly single parenting. Therapy helped me individual and group to make my decision.
I do not agree with the person that said our kids were never ours. That is so wrong! They are our blood. We had them in our womb for 9 months and possibly took care of them in the hospital. I love my son and he will always be a part of me.
I do not like that the other blog is being called la la, happy joy joy, etc just because we chose adoption and are at peace and happy with our adoption. I read the blog. I have posted on the blog. I am not in denial. I have healed. Adoption is hard. The first year was hell. I cried almost daily. I was a basket case. I will admit I cried even this last holiday season because I missed my son and was hurt by something someone in my family said. There are still triggers that can hurt out of the blue. For the most part I am happy though. I know my son is happy, healthy and being raised by good parents. I have an open adoption. I am able to recieve letters and pictures. I have also had visits. I did not choose adoption because of it being open. It has been a blessing to me and helped me. They are like an extended family to me. I love the couple as well.
I'm not sure I touched on everything I wanted to like what Shannon said... and Ceder but at least I got some of my two cents in.
I with both sides well. Please don't fight. listen to each other's stories try to help one another and if you can't then I say leave each other alone. I hope that the ones that were forced are able to heal.
I am an idiot. I am so sorry I wrote that this situation is "your fault". It is really truly not what I meant. I actually thought about rape and being medicated later and regretted what I wrote. It was late and I speak without thinking sometimes. I am really sorry. Truly. I know that not every woman makes this decision with 100% knowledge of what she is doing. I really do know that.
What I was trying to get at, or understand, is who are you, specifically Mary, so angry at? I mean, I am sincerely trying to understand. Are you mad at me (of course you are now because I made such a hurtful comment) but I mean are you mad at adoptive moms like me? Adoptive families in general? The "system"? Or are you really just mad at the people from your past that were involved with your situation? Do you think that ALL adoptions are really bad?
I just worry because I can't go back and change the fact that I've adopted my kids...I have...whether you or anyone else likes it or not. I adopted them. I can't change that (I wouldn't want to). So all I can do now is educate myself to understand as much about it as I can to really help my kids grow up without hating me for adopting them. I mean, do you think they should hate me for adopting them? I am not being coy. I am totally sincere. Should I teach my kids that adoption sucks?
I knew when I adopted my kids there would be a lot of opposition for them growing up, but I honestly believe that we are all happier because we adopted them. But are you saying I should think and teach them that adoption is wrong? Please believe that I am being very very sincere here and not being sarcastic or confrontational at all.
I just read a quote from a blog some of you follow called Once Was Von. The quote said that adoption should be for the parentless child, not the childess parents.
I can totally see that. It hurts but I can see that. And I can see how what I said before about making moms was careless and hurtful. To be honest that is something me and one of our birthmoms always say..about making me a mom. So I am only coming from my tiny tiny little world of adoption expereince. And I am really like WOW eyes opened here to learn that there is so much out there against adoption.
I guess what I HATE about the other side of this comment, is that strangers tell me ALL THE TIME how I saved these kids and how lucky they are that I adopted them. I...HATE...THAT. I want my kids to know that there were lots of people who love them and would have cared for them if we hadn't adopted them, and that they are what is special..not the fact that they are adopted. Does that make sense?
So maybe because I am ao aware of not letting my kids think I "saved" them, I have swung too far the other way and it looks like adoption saved me! Yikes. I get it. I know I am coming off like a crazy person here, but I really did not adopt my kids thinking it would save them or me....I just wanted to be a mom.
Was I stupid?
And P.S. A quote I read that I agree with that I think you will think is that adoption is born from loss. The loss of the couple who can't conceive, the loss of the birthmom who looses her baby, the loss of the baby who looses that warmth, heartbeat, voice, and love of it's birthmom. Lots of loss and lots of grief...seems like a bad place to begin a family. I totally believe that.
But can't we all come out the other side okay? And be happy and better because of it? I don't know. I am just doing my best.
Shannon thank you for posting again as your first comment was very hurtful.
Okay, so maybe losing my temper wasn't the best thing. I apologize for my crude words. BUT try to see my point here...
I am a birthmother. I was not a lost little whore or someone who couldn't see the end to their issues, I wasn't some little Utahn who let her LDS family make the decision for her, and I wasn't someone trying to "run" from my problems. When I got pregnant, my boyfriend at the time, whom I trusted and loved and thought I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, gave me $600 for an abortion. Now, would you rather I did that, and not given an amazing couple the chance to have the forever family they had always dreamed of? I sure as HELL didn't want to do that. So I left him, stayed with my sister, put myself through school, and moved on. Through the friends I made in this new town, I met an amazing woman. She had been married for about 6 years, and had tried everything. She and her husband were both very successful individuals with a wonderful life. The only thing missing was a child to share it with. They had even already set up a college fund in hopes of finding a way to finally have a child. I stepped back and took a look at the two different lives my daughter could have. On the one hand, I could keep her, not be able to give her everything she needed, and have to fight for custody and visitation with the birthfather, who all of a sudden gave a shit. Not only that, but I wouldn't have the wonderful life I have now. (sounds selfish, i'm fully aware of that...) But on the other hand, she could have a mother and father who loved eachother as much as they loved her, a great life with many opportunities, and she would never know the pain of poverty. This couple could give my baby everything I couldn't. Isn't the best interest of the child the important part in all of this?
(i didn't have enough room to finish...)
In response to:
Aislin...
A child does not have to be yours physically in order to love them. And as to being "so new and in the fog", I'd like to see you go through the heartache of giving away your flesh and blood so they'll have a better life.
Lillie...
Giving my child a better life is in no way abandoning her. She will always know who I am and I hope when she is older she will be able to see that what I did was for her benefit. Maybe you're just bitter because you feel abandoned? hmmm... btw, I am happy.
Etropic...Nicole... Lori... Shannen...
Thank you for your posts, yes there are many sides to adoption, and while some birthmothers ARE young and possibly immature, they still made the right decision for their children. All of the birthmothers I know are some of the strongest girls I have ever had the opportunity to meet. It takes someone very selfless to give their child up to a family who can give them everything they deserve to have.
And finally, Mary.
Your situation may be on the lesser end of the spectrum, and I'm sorry to hear that an experience like that has given you bitter feelings toward adoption. But keep in mind that not all cases are like yours. I chose a mother for my daughter. I chose someone that I felt a kindred spirit with, whom I entrusted with the most important thing in my world. Yes, there are some cases in which foster care and the state choosing adoptive families and even open adoptions turn sour, but not all of them are like that. In my case and in Jessa's case and in many other women's cases, adoption is a wonderful blessing.
Do I lash out and curse when I'm upset over something like this, yes. This is a very sensitive situation to many people and to have you say that we're horrible for it? That really "yanks my crank". So I DO apologize for my crude words, but next time, don't "blog bash" just because you had a bad experience. What I said may have been an immature "moment", but sending your friends over to attack someone elses blog is immature as well.
I welcome any and all criticism, disagreements to my opinion, or hell, anyone who agrees with me.
I kind of enjoy a little stir like this every now and then :)
Shannan,
I envision there are times when adoptive moms visit some of our blogs (First Moms and adoptees and even adoptive moms)that are outspoken about the darker sides of adoption that it can sometimes feel like being smacked over the head with a two x four.
Yes, I was another who found your first comment hurtful but I do believe it takes great strength and courage to come back and apologize and continue a dialogue.
I think perhaps you might find some help and comfort in other adoptive moms who have been where you are now. Who love their adopted children, cherish them and only want what is best for them while at the same time have struggled how to handle some of the darker truths they have learned about adoption.
There are some great adoptive moms out there with very helpful blogs. If you would ever like some links, please feel free to email me and I will try to help you out on that end.
And please remember, for all of us, there was lots of learning and soul-searching and having to come to terms with the way adoption has affected our lives. You are not alone in that.
Jamie said...
"On the one hand, I could keep her, not be able to give her everything she needed,"
Jamie, this is what is called financial coercion, when the human rights abuse present when a government violates its citizens basic human rights (Article 25 of the Universal Declaration) forces a mother to surrender her baby.
What would you have required? $5000 in cash to establish a household and $1500 per month in living expenses until your child was 6? Guaranteed daycare and housing? That is how other nations protect families, to help mothers keep their babies. Why are you any less worthy of this support?
As well, when meeting a prospective adoptive couple before any surrender agreements are signed, influences a mother's decision to surrender her baby, this is called emotional coercion. Emotional coercion can take many forms, including family pressure to surrender your baby. This is why no-one who is in the position to benefit from the surrender should have ANY contact with a mother during her pregnancy or before she signs the papers and all revocation periods are over. Unlike the "free for all" adoption market in the U.S., mothers in Australia are protected against this type of coercion -- they interview prospective adoptive parents once revocation periods are over -- hence the people wanting to adopt cannot influence her decision!
When a mother in Australia gets pregnant and asks about adoption, the social worker asks "What do you need in order to keep your baby?" The social worker does not financially benefit from the surrender -- he/she gets paid the same whether or not the mother surrenders her baby -- $25,000 in adoption fees do not change hands and sway the agency "counsellor" as they do in the U.S. and Canada.
Did you get a chance to first recover from birth, which takes at least 6 weeks, before making your decision? If not, then this does not classify as informed consent, because you are still afffected by pregnancy and birthing hormones and have not experienced motherhood enough to know what you are losing.
Standard adoption practice in North America is geared towards ensuring a mother surrenders her baby -- that is why pre-birth matching and "priming" pregnant women to emotionally bond with PAPs is used. The same with open adoption -- it was developed to be a "lure" to "sugar-coat" the idea.
That's part of why we say that even mothers like you had no choice -- so many events and influences ensured that you did not have freedom of choice to make a freely-made uncoerced decision.
I agree with Cassi. There are some fantastic adoptive moms out there. I'm sure anyone who poked through the blogs of other moms would find their blogs, too.
Shannan I appreciate your attempt to empathize and understand where we are coming from.
Oh Jamie Jamie Jamie. While this comment is much calmer it doesn't make much more sense. Do you not realize that almost all of the women commenting on here have lost children to adoption? Most of us are mothers that have thier flesh and blood living away from them. We do know what its like. I really do think you need some therapy. Saying this is not an insult. Most of us have been in therapy for years. When you live through something like this you will need some kind of help. Its hard and it hurts like hell.
No one said you were some lost little whore. No one said anything about you really except that you lashed out in a manner not fitting the situation. I never once used the term fog so I'm not sure where you got that from. You seem to be reading things that are not there. I asked Jessa to try to help you because you seem like you are in pain. I can not stand to see anyone in pain. Its just in my nature to worry about people and try to get them the help they need. That you saw my concern as some kind of insult worries me. No one here is out to get you even when you brutally insulted and verbally attacked our dear friend. What you don't seem to get is that we don't hate you. If any of you decided tomorrow or 20 years down the road you wanted the support of one of our group you would be welcomed with open arms. You seem to have a very warped sense of who and what we are. I am going to leave it at this because I don't want to take over Mary's blog. If you want to discuss it more my blog is open to all discussion.
Shannon. I accept you apology 100%.
Sometimes it takes making a mistake like that to really open our hearts to real discussion. It takes a big person to admit that they mispoke like that. You seem willing to hear what we are saying and learn of some of the darker aspects of adoption. That is a good thing for both you and your children. I am going to try to take your comment and answer it in a blog post on my blog. I do really feel like I am taking over Mary's blog at this point. I know she doesn't mind but I need to work on my own blog too lol. I think you might really enjoy a post on my blog about the diffrence between adopters and adoptive parents. I might repost it since the subject has been brought up so much lately. I am really glad that some of us are listening and talking with repect now. maybe some good came out of this whole mess after all
Aislin-you can take over any time you like- I love you!
I love you too my sugar booger. Uh oh I am letting people see my silly side. How oh How will I keep up my bitter angry reputation now. I will have to be more careful not to let my gaurd down!!!!!
In closing, I'd like to quote the words of Ms. Mary in what started this whole fiasco. And I quote:
"Oh please! How many of you hid the pregnancy from the father? How many of them knew? My daughters father did and he did sqaut. Utah is a sucky state and no matter how hard some men fight they lose. Even when they did all the right things! Ask Cody O'Dea!
Call me an angry mother, call me a bitter mother you are absolutely right! I am angry and bitter, I was lied to over and over again. When I changed my mind I was threatened and in the end I gave in and signed. I gave up because I couldn't fight the agency-
You all can go right ahead and live in the fog and be all happy happy joy joy- just remember that a lot of us had no choice- none! And someday you may come to realize that what you think you chose to do, was the wrong thing. Those of us who don't live in the fog will be around when that happens and help you pick up the pieces!"
Can anyone understand why a birthmom wouldn't be mad at this comment? Seriously. No one has the right to tell me, a birthmom, that what I did was wrong, especially a birthmom as I would have no right to tell Mary that she is wrong for having ill-feelings towards adoption, because of the bad situation that she obviously went through.
What it comes down to is this, no one has the right to tell anyone that they are right or wrong, that's just not fair,especially when it comes to adoption. For Mary to tell all of us birthmoms who have had positive adoption experiences that we are wrong, is not only highly untruthful but also extremely rude.
I had an interesting adoption experience in which both the BF and I were both in Utah, he knew about the adoption, ditched me for 6 months, then 3 weeks before my daughter was born he stopped it, but for all the wrong reasons. I went through hell, I originally wanted to single-parent but after much thought and consideration (before an agency was involved) I decided that for me adoption was the best option, obviously not the ONLY option.
It's been 7 years now and I am HAPPY, not sad, I am unaware of this apparent "fog" I should be living in and never once have I regretted my decision. I was never "coerced" into placing my daughter, I did that under my own free will and while she was 3 months OLD even.
So, understand this, I appreciate a different opinion, when it is done fair. This comment was not fair, which is why there were so many stirred emotions. This is something that we are all passionate about on many levels (obviously) and for many different reasons, no reason to jump to conclusions.
I was one of the unfortunate ones to had to read this comment before it was rightfully deleted and I'd have to say although I was appalled at the blatant rudeness, it didn't bother me, because I know what I did was right and I am at peace with my decision. That's it.
For Jessa and Jamie -
From what I have read about both of your stories, the one thing that strikes me is that you are both very good, loving and kind mothers and I am sorry if you didn't believe, or were led to believe, that you would not be good enough for your children.
It is clear, in my opinion, that both of you would have given all you could and done all you could to offer yourself everything you believed your children deserved. And you would have done it and you would have succeeded because of the kind of people and the loving mothers you have already shown yourselves to be.
I'm sorry neither one of you were given whatever support it was you needed in order to be able to keep and raise your children yourselves. You definitely deserved it.
So Anon- I see you are still upset- even after I admitted I was out of line in what I said- I still believe what I wrote. Utah is a horrible state when it comes to adoption law and in how they treat fathers. I get it, I am sure you feel it was right for you. But in all honesty I have no idea how any mother- can be happy or at peace with this choice.
Go ahead and be angry at me for making a comment I knew was going to be deleted. But please do me a favor and don't use the word birthmother on my blog- I do not use that word to define myself, or who I am in my daughter's life, and I would very much appreciate it if all of you would honor my wishes on this.
Peace
I'm confused. Where does it say you were wrong?
You do understand that she has said she was out of line and is sorry for the comment. The comment sent to her was much more cruel. I do agree that we all have different experiences none more right or wrong than the other. Yet Mary has been told she is wrong for feeling ill will towards adoption over and over on here. She has been dismissed as being just bitter and angry. I totally get what you are trying to say but it goes both ways. Both the people happy with adoption and those hurt by it have been lashing out and trying to hurt each other. Mary said she was sorry. That should be the end of it. Shannan said she was sorry and we are all having very lovely discussions now. But Mary says she is sorry and you feel the need to post yet again about how horrid she is. Its really time to stop the silliness. If you would like to debate or discuss some of the points in a respectful manner, much like Shannan, then hells yeah! Let's talk. I have no issue swapping stories and finding things we agree could be improved in adoption. If not then please just go back to your side of the playground and let us do our thing. You notice we are not over posting on the original blog even though we feel slighted still. Let's move on people
i agree with Mary. All of us have the right choose the terms, the labels, to self-identify however we choose. Example: If someone wanted to call himself a Nazi or an idiot, that's his choice.
But I'm not a birthmother. I don't self-identify with this term. You can call me a mother, natural mother, exiled mother, or mother of adoption loss. I don't even choose the term 'first mother' but i will put up with it (i.e. my motherhood did not get "chopped off" when my son was adopted and temporarily obtained a 'second mother').
So, please don't label me as being a former mother. My role in his life did not end at his birth. Nor did my bond with him or my love for him. He's not my "former son." Even if he did not call me Mom and I had not adopted him back, i would still be his mother in all senses of the word.
That's it- Jame I have had enough stop. Someone is kind enough to post something for you to read and all you can do is still lash out? Not going to allow that, didn't you read the rules?
Feeling forced to stay with the father in order for your child to be supported is financial coersion. Your reasons are your own and we don't know them. If you chose this of your own free will then I hope you find peace with it. That has been said over and over. However many of us did not have that luxury. We have just as much right to speak out about our experiences as you do. IMO we have responsibility to warn women of the bad things that can happen if they are not properly protected. I am sorry that it seems to offend you so much.
We have extended empathy and compassion towards you because you seem to be in a great deal of pain. For some reason that seems to make you angry as well. I have to wonder why you keep coming here if it is so upseting to you. We are not going back to the original blog and if you notice I go to great pains not to mention its name and create another link.
For all the talk of how angry and bitter we are it is you all that seem to be having a problem letting this go. I think that speaks volumes. Mary has said she was sorry for the original comment. Several of us have said we are trying to move on to a more productive conversation but still we have the same old "you mean , angry people comments. Mary and I(and the other mothers that have entered the fray) have tried to be very nice about this. We have kept our tone very calm and rational even when venom and vulgarities have been thrown our way. Honestly, I am lossing my patience with the whole thing. I suggest if you can not move on and have a productive coveration you go back to your own blogs and let the grown ups talk. (and yes I am starting to get mean about it)
Ok - I just read through *all* of these comments & wow. All I can say is wow. I also noticed the LDS perspective on adoption keeps popping up.
Full disclosure on my part requires I inform you I am a temple-recommend holding, church attending, tithing paying member of the LDS church. I am a also a mother who relinquished in the LDS Family Services system and believe there are the system is fundamentally flawed in ways I have not yet learned to articulate. And I mean serious flaws, from their current stance on "open adoption" (which is *not* supported by official LDS church policy, regardless of what the LDS Family Services website says) all the way down to the foundations of the logic and rhetoric used to encourage single mothers to relinquish.
I can't seem to find any other active LDS mothers who have lost children to adoption and have (a) awoken from the adoption-is-great kool-aid stupor and (b) who are willing to speak out about meaningful adoption reform in the LDS church. I can't be the only one...can I?
I am just beginning this journey and would love to find some company along the way. You can read more at letterstomsfeverfew.wordpress.com
I placed my daughter for adoption 7 years ago. I was going through a divorce from an abusive husband. A tragic yet not umcommon situation. I prayed long and hard about my decision. I can say with all honesty that while it was the hardest thing I've ever done.... it was right for me and my child at that time. The thing about adoption is, it CAN turn a bad situation into a good thing. It just takes time. It hurts so bad in the beginning but that doesn't make it wrong. I am so blessed to get regular contact and visits with my daughter. She is a happy well adjusted child and we and her parents adore each other. Everyone in this world has trials to overcome. We should accept each other, comfort each other and look for the good, not the bad. No one should be putting anyone down because of opposing views. We are all sisters in this together. If some of us still deal with hurt and pain, we should comfort them, if someone disagrees, we should try to be understanding and lift each other up. the world isn't perfect but we should all be striving to make it a better place.
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